Share This Post
Michael:
All right. Hello. I’m Michael. He’s Abdul today we have a guest with me a very dear friend of mine to my heart and somebody that I do life with. And I don’t say that lightly. It’s somebody that I look up to and a lot of different aspects of business. And I wanted him to come on he was over here. He’s definitely very hesitant to even be here in this space and talk with us but I think we can all learn things from what he’s done. He is the CEO and owner of integrity fire safety services here in Denver, Colorado. He is grown a business from zero dollars to 3 million to 8 million in three years now. There’s no one I know that has done that right. And, and as completed a successful exit of that as well. It’s a really cool story really cool process. And I, you know, obviously we have our weekly calls that we talk about what we’ve done weekly today, we’re not really going to talk about what we’ve done weekly, we’re going to talk and dive into, because what I think Eric has done in his business is really true and dear to what Abdul And I believe and that’s customers and customer service. So I think we’ll get to that a little bit later. And a couple funny stories that I know will that will come up around marketing and different things that I’ve learned dealing with Eric and his company as well. But we’ll get there first, at first Eric, kind of would like you just kind of a little bit talk about the story of how it was built and how you started it and what you did and what you’ve learned through the process of these last two and a half three years and got to where you are and just the kind of tell your story of kind of how you do it.
Eric:
So a lot of questions and then
Michael:
I’ll help you through it.
Eric:
Integrity fire safety services, launched in February of 2018. After Well, I was the vice president and other things Far less safety company for 11 and a half years prior to that company was bought by another company looking to establish national brand. I hung around for a few months to see who they were going to be and ultimately found that culturally I wasn’t a good fit for them, and they weren’t a good fit for me. So I left that company and within a week or two, a couple of the guys that I was close to at that old companies called him and said that they were seeing the same things I saw and what do we want to do and this the company took shape over the course of the next couple months. And we launched with 12 original founders, Michael was one of them, and 11 the other 11 came from the other company. So we had 12 founders who started the company with zero customers zero dollars. Well, we used about $15,000 worth of seed money to give ourselves Cohen and You know, we just said we grew that over the course of, to this point two and a half years or so into the process. We’re about 85 employees today 86 maybe? Not. Some of it. Certainly, you know, we we had a reputation in town. We had some relationships in town that benefit us. But one of the one of the things I’m most proud of, I think, is that 60 plus percent of our customer base is new never before touched customers from our old lab, so what we were doing in the marketplace resonated to some degree. With the ability to get gain new customers that didn’t know us yet. We we tried to think when we launched this company, we tried to think about what’s differentiators we want to focus on. speed and cost are two things that we we really wanted to deliver better than everybody else tomorrow. Place I think the growth might show that we were able to
Michael:
yeah to do that. No, I think that was the cool thing being in those first meetings and seeing how you identified how you wanted to do business differently in an industry that had been the same for as long as you still could remember and a lot of people are still doing it that way. And I think that’s one of the reasons why you grab so much market share and I think your point of not having all of those old customers be just become your new customers was really cool. And I think I want to spend a little bit of time just talking about that about how do you feel what why do you think you were able to like take 60% of new business and how do you think you won that do you think it was once you started you like, you’re just your business, you’re the people they knew you in the in the in the space or I guess, also like the marketing part of it. Like, this is what blows my mind. Like I’m obviously in digital marketing. And I think a lot of people are websites that we speak to, but doughnuts are the key for you guys, right? Like, that’s what that’s one thing I saw that was incredible in your business and how you relate to the customer at that level, can you just kind of expand a little bit on that as
Eric:
well in the industry? Our industry is driven by code. So a lot of what we do is not necessarily have to have your service to do it, okay. You don’t make that their choices,who do you. So when we went to market, again, if we could find ways to be faster to recognize the customers pain points of waiting too long to get a quote, waiting too long to get an invoice for communication or coordination if we could address those things, and that gave us the opportunity to, I think reach a different level of market. So people were excited about our opportunity because they were used to the same things. We were talking about things that no other company was talking about. town, a lot of companies are still using paper reports or we are electronic still taking weeks to deliver their product where we take literally days. So a lot of it was just the excitement around us recognizing their pain points and building our business around how to address those both speed and cost. Marketing is equally interesting. Just because it is it’s in our customer basis, it’s changing. It’s beginning to shift but it’s somewhat of an older, an older person, an older buyer, essentially, who they do a hand handshake sort of business. They’ve been in the industry a long time. And they’re, they’re used to that personal relationship rather than the digital aspect of things. So yeah, to be able to take notes to somebody in a quote, close the deal that way. It’s pretty funny. When not when the world at large is shifting to more electronics, sometimes a handshake and a donut will get you a lot.
Michael:
I think the cool thing to see is like what you said is those three things that you really fixed, were all customer focused, right? The getting the invoices out to them in a timely manner is something that’s focused on the client getting their projects done more quickly or responding to their concerns more quickly. That’s very customer focused. And I think that’s why I’ve enjoyed being in business with you and doing things as we can. And Abdul the same way as we all see the customer as the most important thing. It’s not about anything other than that, and providing great service to those guys. And I think that’s what’s that’s what’s cool about integrity. I mean, I think it’d be cool to talk a little bit about some of the challenges that you faced as well through the process and if Do you have any questions more than happy to jump in, I’ll give you a chance here in a second but I’m gonna kind of lead in with like, this company is bootstrapped, but then also they ran into it. With banking, because you can talk a little bit about that. And then I would talk about like, even higher rate, how do you hire 85 people in three? I mean, if we think about how hard it is just to hire 510 15 people, you know, like 85 people get in that process down and systems and processes and things like that. Can you just kind of expand a little bit on that?
Eric:
Yeah, the challenges, I think, are probably somewhat normal for many startups. Cash Flow is one of them, you have to herd once the cash is king, you have to manage it properly. But, you know, banking is a big challenge. They don’t most most traditional financial institutions don’t see a company as legitimate until after they’ve been through a third year they’ve shown profitability even if you’re growing at 3 million if you’re profitable. We were in the black very early and all the way and even if you’re growing at the rate we were growing, they increase their conservative nature limits. Their ability to or to be able to think about, you know, investing in something like that, or banking, something like that. So, yeah, we’ve done it, you know, with very little traditional financial safety netting, so to speak. And, you know, hiring is our CFO will tell you that I haven’t done well, because we’ve, we’ve, we’ve had a high turnover rate. But I think that’s more more to what we expect as a company. You spoke about customer focus. If, if an employee starts with our company, and they don’t enjoy being in the spotlight, and being held accountable, being you know, asked to be innovative and communicate well and be part of the solution, rather than part of the problem, they’re probably not going to do very well are the people that come You know, from a culture maybe have, some might say the corporate culture, where they stay in their queue and they do their job, and it’s a They’re under the radar for the most part, they don’t do well here because we, we expose most of that, yeah, we ask our team to be engaged and all of these things that we’re doing and we give them hopefully the power to be able to change things that they don’t see working well. I believe you take good care of our people, they’ll take good care of the customer. Ultimately, the customer will come back around and take good care of the company. So
Michael:
how are you holding those people accountable to the standards that you want to like? What are you looking at? What do you do? Have your employees obviously represent you the way that you want integrity to be represented represented to your customers?
Eric:
Well, and then we went on, honestly, we’ve not done a good job of setting measurements and metrics in place with which they can absorb or manage it’s much more cultural, it’s much more. Ask a lot of questions make sure that we’re diving through a process solving or problem solving process with them, rather than Just dictating to them what needs to happen. We’re moving more toward some objectives that give a clear picture for each employee, what they’re how they’re successful on a daily basis. But for us, it’s for the first two and a half years has been largely cultural. We work hard, we work a lot. We’re committed and dedicated to our customers and our cause. And when things go, well, you’re going to be recognized when things don’t go well, you’re going to be asked what happened and why.
Michael:
I will say this, that, you know, I think I work hard. That’s one of the things I pride myself on being around these guys. These guys get up on the road by 4am. Right into the office by 435 out of the office onto their jobs by 5:36am. Before half of us or even majority of us are even awake, right? They’re already on their day doing things and I think that’s what I was really excited about being part of that company because of how hard they worked and how They reminded me of Minnesota, which has very much you know, very much hard work, good work ethic. These guys, the two other main guys that are part of it, Larry and Sam, those both guys work their butts off as much as anybody I’ve ever met. So it’s just really cool to see, like talking about culture, it’s just leading by example. And that’s what they did and what what what they could see there other roadblocks that you felt like you found in the first three years of, obviously, tremendous growth, right? Zero to 3 million to 8 million is like, it’s even something that I couldn’t even fathom. Right. But you saw the vision and you saw what other roadblocks you think you had to overcome as you did that.
Eric:
People believe that you’ve always been a great supporter of the cause. But are you shocked me when you hit those polls out there? I don’t think most people believe that we were going to achieve what we set out to achieve in the timeframe that we set out And that belief impacts people’s ability to commit to deliver to move forward. But I think that once we hit that first year goal, the second year kind of became potentially more believable, the third year goal more believable after that. So there’s a certain buy in from both your team and your customer base to a certain degree that if the customers don’t think you’re going to make it, then there might not be business with you. But now we have track record of growth pattern that says we’re going to be around and we’re going to continue to add quality members of the team. It gives us a little more leverage to say were sustainable now, outside of that from other other roadblocks is kind of some traditional ones. The hiring we mentioned it’s not easy to bring in the volume of people that we needed, that we’re going to be quality and contributed to the level that we needed them to. But things like that. We are we’re a service company so we we carry stock and there’s a certain expectation in the industry that our technicians have a company vehicle so we we had to work some financial magic with a few vendors in town to make sure we were we had a fleet that was a sustainable. In fact, one of our customers early on asked us how many trucks are in your fleet as if that was the time and validate validation of our existence? Well, we’re at 48 vehicles in the fleet as of today, which is, you know, I believe, potentially one of the largest cities So, you know, little things like that. Not at all. But yes, you’re trying to get over a customer’s perception without even necessarily knowing how they’re perceiving you until the questions. Yeah. No, competition is interesting. Of course, it’s a challenge. There are relationships that our competition has in town that is They’re difficult to, to draw on a trade to trade on. But we know we’re patient. And we all I believe that no sale is ever dead. It’s just a matter of when. Sooner or later, everybody’s going to have a bad experience. So if somebody says no, do you continue to go after them? We do. Keep them in the pipeline test phase, we might extend the duration of touch, touch points, but we’ll get another opportunity. Everybody has. Every company may fail sometimes, that’s when you can shine the best is when you’re in recovery period, but it also gives a competition and an opportunity to step in. So no, every customer is positive. Every every customer is possible customer halls.
Michael:
Yeah. Yeah, that’s true. So the next area I think, in the evolution of the business, I think, you know, a lot of people is the exciting part of what people think is the exciting part, which is the exit right? And I think I think you’ve said a couple of things. And I’d like you to talk a little bit about how that process works. And then once you get to the finish line, what actually happens, which may be not a huge realization for everybody that that might not be the end, right. It’s just the beginning. But I think talking about that, just I mean, I think everyone thinks, oh, that’s such a glorious thing to happen. I just like you to talk about what it feels like to go through that. That process. Obviously, the wining and dining that happens, and then some of the ugly stuff that happens as well through it.
Eric:
Yeah. Well, so what Mike is talking about is we recently took on a capital partner and in doing so, there’s a there’s a transaction, it’s called a transaction. I mean, it’s we part of the challenge with the traditional banking models was that we weren’t able to continue to grow at the pace that we wanted to grow up. We believe that you know, what we’ve done in the first two and a half years can be much more If we have more resources, more more opportunity. So with the resistance of a traditional financial institution being willing to support that girl financially, we, we did seek a capital partner. through the process, we figured out who we what we were really looking for there. There are many types of exit strategies, some of which leave the business, some of which partner up in this fashion, some of which you bolt onto somebody existing. And you had all different opportunities and presented, right we had nine or 10 different offers all different opportunities. And over the course of kind of betting that out, we figured out what we really wanted and that was to retain operational control. We didn’t want to bolt onto somebody else and become, have them overlay their business practices with us. We enjoy the strategy and the tactical portion of growing what we’re doing. So we wanted to be the platform and that’s what we were able to achieve. We wanted to retain the opportunity to recognize some of the financial benefits of having started this company and carry that forward the practice and liability of a guesstimate reducing liability. Certainly there’s not an insignificant number that we were personally guaranteed for. But you do what you have to exactly what the process is, is a challenge. I think that if you’ve ever had these conversations, you’ve probably heard some of the potential horror stories on so you might even be going through it, you might know that there might be these pitfalls with these hurdles to get through, but until they’re in front of you, you don’t necessarily believe that. Once they’re there, you you, you recognize them pretty clearly. It’s a long it’s a long and arduous process. Know that emotionally as well emotionally, even physically the hours that you put in while you’re trying to run a business. and assemble all of the information, have the negotiations, etc. It takes a toll. If you think you work a lot now, yeah, you’ll work twice that in the process of transaction. And what we found was interesting for us was that we spent so much time and energy on getting to the finish line, as you mentioned, we spent almost no energy on what happens after. And that was, I think, you know, potentially a, something we didn’t catch early enough. And we’ve had to recover from a little bit post transaction. You just, there’s so much due diligence, so much negotiation on the front end, you forget that you’re going to affect the lives of your customers, your company employees. And, you know, we didn’t plan well, for how that conversation what the timing look like the dialogue sounded like. Now fortunately, I think that we recovered. Well, again, I think most We all maintain Chairman or shareholder stayed on board. So, you know, we all have a stake in the future. Yes. So talk a little bit about like, how deals are sometimes structured as well. And then up Do I will let you ask a question. But so sometimes there’s all cash out. So why don’t you kind of just kind of talk about different deals of how they can be structured and, and things like that. So people understand that there are a number of number of ways to skin the cat so to speak. Well, I’m certainly no expert at it. I saw enough of the number of opportunities that we have, they are all different and I think that is probably the thing to understand is that there are many ways to get a deal done there. There. There are no full cash offer and a walk away a full exit strategy for leadership if they have leadership that they want to bring in. In our case, it was broken down in a number of different ways. cash and equity and potential are now we’re in a couple of negotiations on acquisitions. Now that we have the resources. And I think each one of those transactions will be somewhat different gone, and one of which will have a short term stick around strategy because we think he would be beneficial to the customer base to retain for a short period of time, but he wants to retire. He’s excited about the opportunity to grow, but only for a short period of time. So we’ll structure the deal that has some cash, some incentive, some are now the other one is more of a longer term. He wants to be part of the company. He wants his company to be part of our company for the long haul. So I think that really, the only thing I can really tell you is that pretty much all options are on the table and it’s really about figuring out what you personally are saying. What do you what do you really want out of?
Michael:
I think once you realize that or once you in the Big Four in your company. decided what you guys wanted and that became crystal clear then you found the right partner to fit that and I think that’s what was cool to see even though we are even though you are those guys are all of us entertained to other opportunities it you it by doing that you realize you didn’t want that and then you came to the spot where you were now in rush to have many offers on the table helps you clarify what you actually are. You only have one I guess if you don’t you don’t have much of a choice. Take a selfie, Abdul what you got.
Abdul:
Okay, so thank you. And I think like so far the discussion like all the questions that were coming in my mind were getting answered. So I’m like, okay, I was like, okay, that question got answered. So I was thinking of another and then that got answered. So I think one thing that I did, like at the start was that you guys had 12 founders like when it started right and i think in the SAS business and the business that we normally talk about on the channel, like there are People wants to get How should I know that I have the right co founder? Do I even need a co founder? Like, so how did you kind of go about, like making sure that all these 12 people like working with them for three years growing a business? And at the start, everything looks nice, right. But how did kind of this, like how did you make sure that this relationship sustained? Because that is a question?
Michael:
Definitely. Right. Would you do things differently, knowing what he knows now? Yeah, right.
Eric:
Yeah, great, great questions. I had the benefit of working with all of these people for a period of time prior to starting this company. So um, you know, Michael and I have known each other for five, six years and through an external Business Review, no grouping, but all of the other 11 I worked with from somewhere between six and 11 years together, so we know each other’s strengths and weaknesses. We know each other’s quirks. We were wasn’t a lot of stuff. prizes gonna have and we were willing to put into a partnership, knowing that there’s going to be challenges with each other but knowing generally speaking how to deal with those challenges or where you know where to be compassionate, where to wait to have a conversation, where to be correct, etc, we had a lot of experience together so that that was our biggest benefit. I think when you’re thinking about if you don’t have that kind of background with a potential co founder or many co founders, I think to go as as slow and as patient as you can and try to work to establish some level of understanding of who people are, would to me be critical. You there there are times in the startup business where the stress levels are extremely high, and oftentimes character is revealed most of the times that are the worst. So to have some understanding of who you’re getting, partner with or you’re choosing to partner with Take your time and vet that as best you can make sure that you understand who they are, in terms of financial gain and challenges. It’ll help you be comfortable with what you’re going into. It’s probably not much different than that marriages to a certain degree. The longer the longer you spend before you jump into, you know, a lifetime commitment
Michael:
getting to make sure that you want that’s interesting, because we have very two different cultures here as well. Right? We have the Pakistan culture where they don’t spend a lot of time I don’t think, right, correct me if I’m wrong, but then you have the American culture where we spend a ton of time right or some some people some of the time, some don’t. Right. So it’s interesting to hear that and you know, it’s interesting even to hear Eric say that because Abdul and I worked together, eight months, six months to figure out what we decided before it decided to move forward and one of the one of the Like most definite statements of duels ever made, like I felt like was, I was like, Well, how do you know? How do we know we can trust each other? And he’s like, well, you just have to trust. Like, that’s how it is. It’s just like getting married, right? And I’m like, wow, I needed like, three years before I married my wife. I was just like, oh, we’re gonna do it. I’m like, Oh, he’s right. All it does is take trust. And if you trust each other, and you can see each other, and we’ve been through some ups and downs and customer issues, not issues, stressful situations, and fun times, and we saw how we both interacted in those spaces. And I think that’s really good advice, what Eric just said about how to spend some time with those people in those areas that you can
Abdul:
and I think like, like, the thing is, like, be ready for those challenges as well. Right? Like every like things won’t be good all the time, you will have those challenging conversations. So just like if everyone is on the same page that yes, once the time comes once those challenges come. We have They kind of talk through them or get through them. I think that’s the main thing that everyone has to know. Like once they get into it.
Eric:
I agree. Yeah, each each founder or co founder has to be committed not just to the company, but more to the relationship that you are building there and the design, you’re going to have challenges it’s inevitable, but you are committed to solving them the right way or to working through them to being respectful and patient with the people that you are working with to make sure that you are hearing what they have to bring to the table they are here and you and your work in community to solve the problem not just to get your way or to make it well you know, that’s that’s the key is just yet to understand you’re gonna face that stuff. How are you committed to getting through it?
Michael:
Cool. Abdul anything else.
Abdul:
Yeah, that was one thing on customers because that oh, I think came up like customer service, right? Because I think for business also like like Michael said, we take on like, we look at customer service. We Definitely, we’re laughing because we know that that’s the only thing because like, there are so many hosting companies out there so many WordPress hosting companies out there. Service is one of the things that kind of separates us, but at times they can’t Okay, when you know, okay, you have to decide on where the line is with customers as well. So how did you do that in your business like, employee, okay, fifth baby decide, okay, this is where we go to, and then maybe decide, okay, no, this is a little too much. Like it was a defect kind of thing.
Michael:
And was asking in regards to customers and their requests, and like, when do you say, hold on that’s not inside of the scope? And when do you bend the scope to keep the client customer happy? Things like that. Right? So that’s, that’s what you’re looking into right after? Oh, yeah. Cuz we’re trying to identify that because I’m coming from the agency world where I do everything. I’m like, No, we’ll do everything. We can keep the customer happy. And I won’t say Abdul’s coming from not keeping the customer happy. He’s just added a different area of a hosting company where they don’t do all of this stuff, right. So in your business, I’m sure the same kind of applies where customers come in and hey, I want this included in the scope or not. How do you identify like? Well,
Eric:
much to the chagrin of my operations team, I don’t know that I’ve always said no one time.
Michael:
So Eric, and I think of it very similarly,
Eric:
I believe, unless a customer is proven to be abusive to our team, manipulative to our, our organization, you know, potentially showing themselves to be not a good partner. In my mind, then, as long as they haven’t done that, they’re worth taking care of. And I’ll do whatever it takes to take care of every single one of them.
Michael:
And you’ll go back if they’re outside of scope and be like, hey, do you understand how this is outside of
school
Eric:
and a lot of us, a lot of our relationship is a relationship. The scope is the scope, but how we educate them how we communicate how we organize Our staff will we help them justify what they need to spend? You know, it’s all about the relationship and well there are some contingent in our business or our company that thinks that everything should be a process and automated and you know, kind of to if the customer doesn’t fit in that process, and they’re not a customer that we want and I’ve, I’ve resisted that to this point. There automation helps repeatability and scalability certainly, but most customers want to be taken care of as if they are the only customer they want. customization is they want you to bend over backwards. They want to know that you matter that they matter to you. Um, so how we can show them to do that and still maintain some level of automation repeatability, that’s that’s been a huge challenge. We it unfortunately creates a certain amount of overhead that we have to maintain an order we’ve talked about that as well. You have to have
Michael:
a support staff or the people in place That go that extra mile that you’re speaking
Eric:
of, and you hope that those people are diluting, understanding that that’s their poll. Yeah. So I think it’s a combination of both. I mean, I think you have to have some of that process and automation, you have to draw the line to a certain degree. But for me, it’s only if they’re, they’ve just proven to be not the partners that are not willing to invest equally in what we’re trying to achieve as much as we’re trying to help them. And I think it’s important.
Michael:
I think it was interesting to watch, you know, there are three or four top people in the company that he that that integrity created. And then they brought on one gentleman that had been in the industry for a while, and he very quickly I felt like became part of that management team, because he thinks of the customer first and I think you value and I think all three of you, all four of you value his viewpoint and opinion to your point of making sure Hey, we’re doing the right thing and, you know, I think he puts a good It was interesting to see somebody from the industry move into the company and help shape the culture and the vision of the company because of his voice
Eric:
and what he did. Right? Well, the great thing was about him was he was a customer. So he was he was somebody that use our services and our, our company to do the things that we do. So he saw it from the customer angle. So for us to have that, that alternate perspective that the juxtaposition of what we do what we think that we understand, for him to have him come in and go, Well, you guys are close here, but you’re missing the boat here, here, here and here was I Oh, and gave us the ability to adapt to our customers needs and affection that we hadn’t really been able to do before, which I think helped with growth. I think that yeah, it helps. It helps both internally and externally helps us have better dialogue with those types of customers, and helps us internally to understand our customers better and then deliver what we’re selling. No He was a huge show. It was amazing to, to have somebody that was willing to say, again, yeah, you’re pretty close on these thoughts. But you’re way off over here. And the cool
Michael:
thing is when you came in Now, obviously, you guys were starting to become successful, like you’re probably three or $4 million at that time. And he comes in, and he’s willing to challenge you guys in that space and be like, Oh, you’re not doing everything. Right. Right. Like, there are things you guys are missing and his voice very quickly, even though I didn’t even understand the industry as much. When I the first time I met him, I was like, that guy has something to say. And then it should be a part of something bigger. And it was cool to see that. And I think that kind of ties in because he’s the customer, right? So they brought somebody in house, to be a customer to them shall help shape the culture and help shape what services they were delivering, which is really cool if you’re able to do that, right. Like I think that’s what’s making this the relationship between Do an AI interesting as I am the customer, right? Like, I still own an agency, I still run it run an agency, I still have hosting clients. So it’s fine the mix between what a duel believes and what I believe. And as you guys saw, I very much believe what Eric thinks, hey, what the customer gets whatever they need, right? And we tried to do that to a certain level in scope. And after that, we’ll try to explain it’s outside of scope. But there I’m learning there are ways to do things differently the way that a duel is talked about things about how we got to break some sort of structure because when you have 1000 clients have 10,000 clients, you can’t do that all the time things do change. And you don’t want to feel the people that were on boarded at first. Now feel like this companies didn’t stay true to their values right? I think that’s important as well. Abdul they have anything else you want to know I think that kind of like go I think there’s a ton of subjects we can come into and I’m going to put him on the spot right now when we come back and talk about some of the things that We want to talk about I want to ask for a minute so important I don’t think we need to dive into every aspect but I think cash flow watching you guys go through cash flow I’ll say issues or problems right? A lot of people can learn from and that’s why cash is king in the whole process of having there’s other areas more customer stuff we can talk about more deep dive in the acquisition more deep dive into the even starting and bootstrapping the company there’s all these different areas I think we can have individual meetings about you mind coming back and talking about that stuff but everybody okay, great. Perfect. Yes, that’s what I wanted the answer to be okay, cool. Well, I Eric like I said, Man, you one of those guys in my life that I look for not only just in business, but doing life and keeping me connected to my kids and family and making sure you put that stuff first and we’ve literally had a 20 minute conversation before we jumped on here about that and how important that is the reason we run the businesses and do these things as we spend time with those that we love and can provide a better life than we have all had previously and now he’s a dual say goodbye. He’s Eric Williams, owner and CEO now not owner anymore CEO, part owner, sorry, yes, part owners, a part owner of integrity fire safety services. So I think we can learn from even though we’re talking about running a SaaS business, looking at different businesses and applying it. I’m Michael warrior. Thanks so much for joining in. We’ll be back next week. Thanks.
